Sara Aagesen: "Nuclear plants? They won't shut down if there's no guarantee of supply."

Third Vice President and Minister for Ecological Transition, Sara Aagesen, promises to work tirelessly until the source of the massive blackout is clarified. She announces that she will not wait for the final report to take action, but specifies that action will be taken "when there is certainty." She does not accept questioning the integration of renewable energy into the grid (wind and solar), nor does she see any reason to think that the ambitious plans to continue their momentum will be halted.

Is it known yet whether the cause of Monday's blackout was Red Eléctrica or private companies?

At this point, we don't know who caused the failure. We want to identify where the failure occurred and analyze it. There were a number of situations. The Spanish energy system is prepared for a "plan B," to respond to even a major circumstance. A concatenation of circumstances had to occur for Spain to reach that national energy net zero.

Red Eléctrica ruled out a cyberattack on its facilities on Tuesday. Its ministry spoke of a "downstream investigation" (into companies in the sector). Which probability is gaining more weight?

Everything has equal weight; all hypotheses are on the table; that's why we created the Analysis Commission with two subgroups, two working groups. One focused on cybersecurity and digital systems, and the other focused on the operation of the electrical system. We have already met and updated the information and requested new information from the operators. The companies are fully cooperating.

A concatenation of circumstances must have occurred to reach zero energy.

Why was it not possible to isolate and limit the problem?

This is one of the issues to be resolved. In previous situations, a specific area has had to be isolated and has been without power for a period of time, until it was restored. We've also seen this in other cases, such as the loss of interconnection near the Iberian Peninsula, which caused large fluctuations and was contained without impacting consumers.

Are we going to have to wait months to find out what happened? It casts doubt on the transparency of the information provided.

Quite the opposite. The government wants to act with rigor and certainty because anything else is a lie. We must wait for the substantial response from this investigative committee. We are very scrupulous and act with certainty about what happened. We don't want to fuel theories without having the information and act with certainty about what happened. It can be frustrating and stressful. I'm the first to want to know what happened and what measures we need to put on the table urgently. But we're going to do so with technical rigor.

Some of these conjectures have arisen when the Prime Minister has focused his attention on private companies.

The emergency meetings the Prime Minister and I held with the companies were not an attack. From the very beginning, together, and in addition to the teams from the Secretariat of State for Energy, we went to the electrical system's control center. But the analysis is complex; not only because of the thousands of data points, those milliseconds it takes to gather all the information, but also because of the number of people involved: control centers, the various generators, distribution and transmission networks. The meeting with the operators was to request collaboration, certainty, agility, and speed, and that's what we received from them; they're already sending us information.

We will not wait for the final report to act, we will do so when there is certainty.

You've predicted economic losses of up to 800 million euros for the economy. Don't you think someone should take political responsibility?

What we need to do is ensure that this commission works very diligently and produces results. Once we know the causes, we can implement the necessary measures to ensure this doesn't happen again. Only then can those responsible be held accountable.

Is Beatriz Corredor, the president of Red Eléctrica, in jeopardy?

Of course not. They're working on the recovery, REE continues working to ensure the system's security, and therefore, there are no grounds for resignation here. There's no reason to ask for any resignation.

In your reflections these days, what has come to mind to prevent something similar from happening again in the future?

As soon as we have certainties, we'll act. We're not going to wait for the end of an investigation. To give you an idea, Entso, the European network that brings together all the electricity system operators, which brings together the best expertise in electricity grids, has announced an investigation, and just preparing the preliminary report will take them six months, because they're aware of the complexity of the system. I'm not saying it will take us six months to prepare a report. We're working tirelessly. But the delay isn't a whim to hide information; on the contrary, we want accurate information to be delivered with complete transparency.

I am the first one who wants to know what happened in order to define the action.

Is the penetration of renewable energies, which are intermittent, going too fast? Wasn't their presence in Monday's mix exaggerated?

Making a case against renewables based on what happened on Monday is irresponsible. It's technically simplistic, and there could even be vested interests behind the attempt to go against renewables. Renewables have brought us economic growth, competitiveness, and reindustrialization, in a context of vulnerability and dependency. And they have also allowed us to overcome an energy crisis and be better protected from high energy prices, which has allowed us to become more self-sufficient. No technology can be blamed.

Does anyone want to stigmatize renewables?

Of course, and it has been for a long time. We're seeing it in this country and in other countries as well, when people assume the Earth is flat, that climate change doesn't exist... Our commitment is clear and comes from science and the best information. Renewables are a path forward, a global trend. The president herself (Ursula von der Leyen) has said so.

Red Eléctrica is now operating by allowing more conventional plants into the mix. Doesn't that fuel the arguments against renewables?

We're operating with caution. We must be cautious, and therefore, Red Eléctrica is operating under different conditions, with more reserves available [from conventional sources]. But this greater reserve comes at an additional cost to consumers [these technologies are more expensive], but it's time to provide that certainty after what happened last Monday.

Everything has the same weight now, all hypotheses are on the table”

What improvements can be made to better integrate renewables into the electricity grid? Batteries, reinforced lines, stabilizers...

The integration of renewables in this country is already underway, and well. Many days we've achieved greater penetration of renewables with lower demand, and the system has been functioning without any problems. We still have a long way to go; we will continue to advance this integration, aligned with our national goals.

Spain is significantly expanding its electricity production capacity, but electricity demand is not growing. Transportation and heavy industrial facilities still need to be electrified.

Demand is coming, and we're seeing it in the new Horizon 2030 transport network planning. The new plan not only seeks to integrate more renewables, but also to bring to light a large amount of demand that wants to come to this country. Demand related to hydrogen production, port electrification, industrialization, decarbonization of industrial sectors, with a value chain associated with the energy transition and Artificial Intelligence. First, affordable energy has arrived to make it attractive for these new investments; and it had to be in that order. Until we have managed to invest or change the energy matrix, this appetite for investment in Spain has not emerged.

Could the blackout make Spain less desirable for investing in renewable energy?

I don't see it that way; on the contrary. What happened on the 28th and the very accelerated recovery process sends a very important message. The rapid recovery has also been a sign that Spain will continue to be an attractive country for investment.

The emergency meetings held are not an attack on private companies

In the proposal catalog, there are complaints about storage delays in batteries.

We've done a lot in storage. We started from scratch. There was practically nothing in the storage world in our country, and the first thing we did was develop a strategy and a plan. We've developed numerous laws and incentives. The Recovery Plan will attract nearly 4.5 GW of storage, both hybrid and standalone. In addition, we've put an additional €700 million on the table for storage, because we understand it needs an additional boost. And that boost will come through incentives.

How much will the total investments to address this transition cost?

In total, taking into account not only measures to integrate renewables but many others, such as energy efficiency, electric mobility, and others, we're talking more than €300 billion.

Will the blackout slow the momentum of renewable energy, or photovoltaics in particular?

We're not seeing that today. There's still a lot of appetite for investment. There's still a large contingent of [grid] access granted and progress in the processing of renewable energy from solar parks, which leads us to believe there's no slowdown in renewables in our country.

Almaraz will close. If the owners want something else, they will have to request it.

Will there be changes to the nuclear plant closure schedule? Will Almaraz be closing?

The Almaraz power plant will close as scheduled. If the owners wish to do otherwise, they will have to follow the full application process.

Has the role of nuclear power been discussed in this week's meetings?

That's another debate that has nothing to do with what happened on Monday. We're dealing with a schedule that was agreed upon by the owner companies, and it's them who, if they want to extend the life of these facilities, have to come to us and make a proposal. So far, they haven't done so. There are several owners, and we'll see if they reach an agreement and make a proposal. So far, the companies haven't officially proposed an extension.

In Catalonia, there is time for a positive transformation and to assess what can and cannot be done.

Electricity companies believe the Enresa fee for radioactive waste management is exorbitant. Is the government willing to lower it?

We've told the companies that we won't allow consumers to pay the cost of nuclear waste management. We've been very clear. It's an intrinsic cost of electricity generation. And it would be state aid to pay the cost of waste management.

The electricity companies view a 30% rate increase as unfair, as it makes business unviable in a context of low electricity prices.

The fee update is due to the fact that Spain finally has a seventh radioactive waste management plan. The previous one had not been updated since 2006. That plan entails a cost of €20 billion and needs to be readjusted.

Isn't the government's confidence in maintaining the closure of nuclear plants after the massive blackout shaking things up? Have you considered changing that closure schedule?

The ground isn't moving under our control, because the Electricity Sector Law makes it clear. No generating facility, nuclear or otherwise, closes if the principle of guaranteed supply isn't met. Therefore, we have a foundation, and for the time being, that foundation isn't necessary in the case of nuclear facilities.

And in Catalonia, will it be possible to close its three reactors? There's no sign of strong renewable energy development, and there's social rejection of interconnections. Many experts point out that there won't be time to replace nuclear power.

As stated in the Electricity Sector Law, if there is a problem with the guarantee of supply at any facility, and I want to be technologically neutral, it cannot be closed if it is estimated that there is no guarantee of supply. Ascó I closes in October 2030, Ascó II in September 2032, and Vandellòs in October 2035. The energy system is evolving technologically by leaps and bounds, in terms of integration and with advances in interconnections, so I want to send a message of reassurance, because we will be constantly monitoring how our system is progressing.

We will not allow consumers to pay the cost of waste management.

The Forestalia company attempted, but failed (due to negative reports from the Generalitat), to build the MAT lines using green energy from Aragon to Barcelona. Will Red Eléctrica build them?

Interconnections are part of the planning, and we are planning for 2030. And the interconnection with France is important. And we have conveyed this to the Energy Commissioner, Dan Jorgensen. Spain frequently raises its voice about their importance, even when we talk about a single European market. Furthermore, they make the system more robust. Between now and 2035, many things can happen, very positive for the national system, and a transformation can occur in Catalonia regarding each of the needs to provide certainty about what is possible and what is not.

Do you think we should start talking about an alternative economy for the areas that would be affected by the closure of the Vandellòs and Ascó nuclear plants?

We must plan, because if you don't plan, you don't anticipate, and if you don't anticipate, the transition will never be fair. We have to plan based on the timeline that companies don't set, if we're talking about nuclear closure; and that allows us to anticipate actions and measures to create opportunities in all those territories.